ccxxxvi Venables case the case be a lease be make to a and b for their life  the remainder to though Venables in tail who Elizabeth be attaint of felony  Elizabeth there be a Leonard er p general pardon though Venables Elizabeth  levy a fine and suffer a recovery to the use of Harris sergeant office be find  Harris traverse the office and thereupon be a demurrer it be argue by leak  that traverse do not lie in this case h where the king be entitle by double  matter of record the party shall not be admit to his traverse nor to his to  point out de law but be put to his petition which see e in the case of the  earl of Northumherland where tenant of the king be attaint of treason and the  same be find by office see also h in the case of the duke of Norfolk and the  same be not help by the statute of e cap for the word be true find by office  but here the office be true by this attainder though Venables be utter disable  to do any act for by Bracton a person attaint forisfacit native land kingdom  heir svan e one be attaint of felony and before office find the king grant  over his land also be be not help by the general pardon for before the general  pardon he have a special pardon therefore the general pardon nothing service  as to he but by the justice the forfeiture do remain until the general pardon  Harris to the contrary and be put the case of sir James Ormond h where the  king be entitle by matter of record and the subject confess the title of the  king and avoid it by as high matter as that be for the king traverse in that  case lie and if the king be entitle by double matter of record if the party  avoid one of the say record by another record be shall be admit to his  traverse and so here we have the pardon which be a record and that shall avoid  the record for the king and here the pardon have purge the forfeiture in  respect of the offence and he say that tenant in tail be attaint of felony  shall not lose his land but the profit only for be have his interest by the  will of the donor and it be a confidence repose in he and as walsingham case  be he can grant over his estate and see in Wroths case annuity grant pro  council impendend can be grant over or forfeit for there be a confidence see  Empsons case dyer and ass if the issue in tail be outlaw of felony in the life  of his father and get his pardon in the life of his father after the death of  his father be may enter but by Thor if the issue in tail get his pardon after  the death of his father then the king shall have the profit of the land during  the life of the issue and the case of Leonard cardinal pool be debate in the  parliament Elizabeth that he be dean of Exeter be seize of land in the right  of his church and be attaint of treason it be hold he shall forfeit the profit  of such land but admit that by this attainder the land be forfeit yet the  party have the freehold until office find see Nicholls case blow Com and also  the case of the duchy in blow Com ace and here the pardon have dispense with  the forfeiture a tenant of the king alien in mortmain before office find the  king pardon it it be good the Lord Poynings convey all his land to sir Adrian  Poynings who be a alien and after make a denizen and the king pardon and  release to he all his right in the say land without any word of grant and  adjudge the same do bind the king and he say he have a good precedent h where  a general pardon before seizure into the hand of the king be allow good  contrary after a seizure without word of grant see Br h Br charter of pardon  if a man be attaint of felony and the king pardon he all felony performance  the same and outlawry c and release all forfeiture of land and tenement and of  good and chattel the same will not serve but for life of land if no office be  find but it will not serve for the good without word of restitution and grant  for the king be entitle to they by the outlawry without office but the king be  not entitle to land until office be find see ibidem h the heir intrude and  before office find the king pardon now the heir be discharge as well of the  issue and profit as of the intrusion it self but a pardon give after the  office find be available for the offence but not for the issue and profit and  he cite the case of coal in Plowden where a pardon be grant mean between the  stroke and the death see h e Elizabeth dyer brereton case Elizabeth dyer  Egerton solicitor contrary this traverse be not good for be who traverse have  not make title to himself as be ought upon which the queen may take issue for  it be in the election of the queen to maintain her own title or to traverse  the title of the party at the commonlaw no traverse lie but where livery may  be sue but Leonard er p that be help by the statute of e but where the kin be  entitle by double matter of record as in our case he be no traverse be allow  until e cap and in such case two thing be requisite that the office be true  find that the party who be to be admit to his traverse have just title or  interest of estate of freehold c but in our case the office be confess by the  traverse to be true although that the conveyance be not true find and also  Harris at the time of the office find have not just title but his interest  come to he long time after the office find also the traverse be not good for  he traverse the matter of the conveyance which be not traversable for if the  queen have title non refert quo Leonard modus or by what conveyance she have  it as to the matter in law tenant in tail in remainder be attaint of felony if  the king during the life of the tenant in tail shall have the freehold and he  conceive she shall for it shall not be in abeyance and it can not be in any  other for when he be attaint he be dead as unto the king the chief lord can  have it for the tenant for life be alive and also he in the remainder in fee c  the donor shall not have it for the tenant be not natural dead but civil and  the land can revert before the tenant in tail be natural dead without issue  but if there be any other in who the freehold can vest then the king shall not  have the freehold but only the profit so if the tenant be attaint the lord  shall have the land present e e the husband seize in the right of his wife be  attaint of felony the king shall have but the profit because that the free  hold rest in the wife and if the lord enter the wife shall have a assize and  tenant in tail may forfeit for his life as he may grant during his life see  old n if tenant in tail for life dower or by the courtesy be attaint of felony  the king shall have the land during their life and after their decease he in  the reversion shall sue to the king by petition and shall have the land out of  the king hand and there it be further say that the lord by escheat can have it  for the party attaint be not his very tenant but be in the reversion for the  term yet endure but now be to see if the freehold be in the king without  office and I conceive that it be where the king be entitle to a action there  the king ought to have a office and a to know facias upon it as where the king  be entitle to a cessavit action of waste c h where entry in the case of a  common person be necessary there behoof to be a office for the king as where  the king villain purchase land or a alien bear c so be it for a condition  break mortmain c in some case a office be only necessary to instruct the king  how he shall charge the officer for the profit which may be supply as well by  survey as by office as if the king be to take by descent or as the case be  here and it be true that a person attaint of felony may during his attainder  purchase land and yet he can keep it against the king and it be clear that by  the commonlaw in such case the land be in the king but not to grant for the  statute of h be a impediment to that but now that defect be supply by the  statute of h so as now the king may grant without office see Elizabeth cook  part Dowtys case and in our case office be not necessary to entitle the king  but to explain his title see h the land of a man attaint of high treason be in  the king without office so where the king tenant die without heir or tenant in  tail of the gift of the king die without issue see Br office before the  escheator see h a man attaint of treason Leonard the king before office grant  his land and good thing which lie in grant as advowson rend c such thing upon  attainder be in the king without office as to the general pardon of Elizabeth  he conceive that the same do not extend to this case and that this interest of  the queen by this attainder do not pass by the pardon out of the queen so if  the queen have but a right and title only Popham attorney general by this  attainder the estate of he in the remainder in tail accrue to the queen for  the life of he in the remainder for by our law felony be punish by the death  of the to hit and the loss of his good and land for the example of other  therefore nothing be leave in he tenant for life be attaint of felony the king  pardon to he his life yet he shall have his land during his life for he  himself can dispose f they for hill life and so it be of tenant in tail c for  be may forfeit all that which he have and that be a estate for his life which  be the freehold if land be give to one and his heir for the life of another  and the Leonard er p donee be attaint of felony the king shall have the land  during the life of beneficiary and vie for the heir can have it because the  blood be corrupt and there be not any occupancy in the case for e the justice  will not accept a fine of land for the life of another because a occupant may  be in the case but for a fine of land to one and his heir for the life of  another they accept a fine for there be no mischief of occupancy land be give  to a for life the remainder to b for life the remainder to the right heir of a  who be attaint of felony a die now the king have a fee execute and here in our  case if this tenant for life have be dead no praecipe will lie against he in  the remainder be in possession but the party who have right be to sue to the  king by petition e if one seize in the right of his wife of land for life be  attaint the king shall have exitus beneficial but I conceive that case be not  law for see f n b d the husband seize in the right of his wife in fee be  outlaw of felony the king seize the husband die now shall issue forth a they  to shut extremum the word of which writ be in such case because a pron   interrog  land tenement who ipse to hold de jure heir n wife of oneself thus  far to keep alive occasion cujusdam utlagariae in Self pro quadum felon ind  indict to be c in manu domini h father our men to stand out c therefore the  king have not exibus so much but also the land it self see to the same purpose  the register b and see also now in the book of plea of the crown which affirm  that tenant in tail be attaint of felony shall forfeit the land during his  life and he conceive that this estate of though Venables be in the king  without office not to grant for he be restrain by the statute of h but it be  in he so before office that he who have right ought to sue to the king by  petition if be will have the same yet he conceive Leonard that before the say  statute of h the king may grant it before office as it appear by Thirning h  which be before the statute so if the king tenant make a lease for year the  remainder over to another in fee who die without heir the say remainder be in  the king without office because a common person in such case can enter but a  claim be sufficient and therefore it shall be in the king without office as  foe the pardon be conceive that it do not extend to this estate for the same  be a freehold therefore not within the pardon as if the king tenant be attaint  of felony and the king pardon he all offence and all which he may pardon these  word will not go or extend to freehold but only to personal matter and such  punishment and pain which do concern chattel but it may be object that in this  pardon title of quare hinder and reentries for condition be except and  therefore if they have not be except they have be release by the pardon and  therefore this pardon do extend to inheritance and freehold as to that I say  that such exception be not in use in the time of king Edward and such  inheritance and freehold be not take to be within such pardon and such  exception begin Elizabeth and he say he have be of counsel in such case where  it have be take that such pardon do not extend to freehold as a abbot be seize  and during the seize the abbey be dissolve the king make such a pardon the  same do not transfer the king right and in this case there be diverse  exception of good and chattel in many case and therefore it can be intend that  this pardon do extend to freehold and see the say act of pardon there the  queen give and grant all good chattel debt fine issue profit amercement  forfeiture and sum of money which word forfeiture shall be intend personal  forfeiture and not otherwise for it be couple with thing of such nature and as  to the traverse be conceive that it do not lie in this case for the office be  not true in substance although it be void in circumstance and also the king  here be entitle by double matter of record I e the attainder and the office  and he say that the statute of e which give traverse be to e mean of office  find army duty and not army short catalog for then escheator be very  troublesome and e do not give traverse but where the office be true find as if  the king tenant be seize and the seize be attaint the queen seize the land now  the disseizee have no remedy by traverse upon the statute of e but be put to  his to point out de law for that the office be true but if I be the king  tenant and seize of land accord and it be find that I S be seize of my land  and attaint c whereas in truth he have not any thing in my land there traverse  lie for the office be false and so our Leonard er p case for the traverse be  at the commonlaw and it be true that Venables be seize c Leonard cook to the  contrary and he conceive that by the attainder the queen have gain but a  chattel and that notwithstanding this forfeiture if Venables have be in  possession a praecipe shall be bring against he and whereas it have be say by  Mr attorney that the writ set down in the register be the best expositor of  our law the same be not so for the register say that waste lie notwithstanding  a mean remainder which be not now law but it have be clear rule to the  contrary see ace e the register therefore and the writ be subject to the  judgement of our law and the writ of they to shut extremum be not to the  contrary for I confess that in such case the land shall be seize into the king  hand but the king shall have but a chattel in it it have be argue be may grant  therefore he may forfeit deny logical consequence for a man seize in the right  of his wife may grant but not forfeit guardian in socage may grant but not  forfeit the husband may grant a term for year which he have in the right of  his wife but he can forfeit it a woman enheritrix take husband and afterward  be attaint of felony the king pardon he they have issue the woman die the  husband shall be tenant by the courtesy which prove that the king have no  freehold by this attainder before the statute of west tenant in tail post  offspring encourage may forfeit the land but now the statute have so  incorporate the estate tail to the tenant in tail that it can be divest yea a  fine levy Self jure be nullus although as to the possession it be a  discontinuance and that be the reason wherefore tenant in tail shall not be  seize to another use see Stamford b the husband seize in the right of his wife  be attaint of felony the king shall have the issue of the land of the wife  during the life of the husband c so if tenant in tail be attaint of felony  that be but a chattel in the land of the wife and also in the land of the  tenant in tail and if the possession of a bishop be seize into the king hand  for a contempt in such case the king have possession and not only the profit  the same law of land of tenant in tail or for life be attaint of felony so  seizure for alienation without licence or of the possession of poor alien see  Br Reseisure so where the seizure be for idiocy and be conceive that nothing  be in the king without office and as to the case of h I confess it for all  that time many and among they lawyer and justice be attaint by parliament and  so be sir John Salisbury who case it be and their land by Act of parliament  give express to the king and therefore I grant that their land be in the king  without office tenant in fee of a common lord be attaint of felony his land  remain in he during his life till the entry of the lord and where the king be  lord until office be find but in the case of a common person after the death  of the person attaint it be in the lord before Leonard entry and in the case  of the king before office for the mischief of abeyance and see the Lord Lovel  case Elizabeth blow Com where it be hold that upon attainder of treason by Act  of parliament the land be not in the king without office in the life of the  person attaint upon the word of the Act shall forfeit see Stamford ace he  conceive that this interest which come to the king by this attainder be but a  chattel and then it be release by the pardon and so he conceive if it be a  freehold for the word of the general pardon be large and liberal pardon and  release all manner of treason c and all other thing cause c and here  forfeiture be pardon and also this word thing be a transcendent c and although  it be a general word yet by the direction of the general pardon it ought to be  beneficial expound and extend as if all thing have be especial set down also  the word be pardon they and their heir therefore the same extend to  inheritance for any offence not except for there be the word heir and the  three branch do concern only chattel and that be b V the word grant where the  former be by the word release and acquit see Br charter of pardon h tenant of  the king die seize the heir intrude office be find in that case by pardon of  all intrusion the offence be pardon but not the issue and profit but by the  pardon aforesaid all be pardon and here in our case the office be void for the  statute make all precept condition void c be award upon such forfeiture see  also in the second branch vex and inquiet in body good land c and see Leonard  er p also among the exception that person stand indict of wilful murder and  forfeiture of good land tenement grow by any offence commit by such person by  which he conceive that if that exception have not be the land of such a person  if he have be attaint upon such indictment shall be forfeit as to the traverse  he conceive that in as much as the office be true our plea be a to point out  de law although it conclude with a traverse we vary from the office in number  of person and in the day of the feoff and every circumstance in the king case  be to be traverse and our plea in substance do confess and avoid the office  although the king here be entitle by double matter of record I e the attainder  and the office yet one of we say record be discharge by another record I e the  pardon and then there be but one record remain sure the office and therefore  our traverse do lie and he conceive that at the commonlaw there be a traverse  as where it be find by office that the lessee of the king have do waste or  cessed for two year and there it be say that the lessee and tenant in a action  bring against they may traverse the office therefore traverse be at the  commonlaw where the king be entitle Leonard by single matter of record so upon  a office find a alienation without licence traverse be by the commonlaw see  traverse in such case in the case of William de Herlington ass see Br traverse  petition be by the commonlaw and traverse by the statute frowick in his read  see Stamf prerogat that traverse in the case of good be at the commonlaw but  traverse for land find by office by e cap therefore the remedy be by petition  see now cook part the sadler case traverse be at the commonlaw concern  freehold and inheritance but that be in special case when by the office the  land be not in the king hand nor the king by that be in possession but only by  the office and entitle to the action and can make seizure without suit there  in a to know facias bring by the king in the nature of such a action to which  he be entitle the party may appear unto the to know facias and traverse the  office by the commonlaw Inst a hughs query hob Rep