clxix Venables and sergeant Harris case the case be a lease be make to a and b  for their life the remainder to Thomas Venables in tail who Elizabeth be  attaint of felony Elizabeth be a general Leonard er p pardon Thomas Venables  Elizabeth levy a fine and suffer a common recovery to the use of Harris  sergeant a office be find Harris traverse the office and upon that there be a  demurrer leek argue that traverse do not lie in this case h where the king be  entitle by double matter of record the party shall not be admit to traverse  nor to his to point out de law but be put to his petition which see e in the  case of the earl of Northumherland where the tenant of the king be attaint of  treason and the same find by office see also h in the case of the duke of  Suffolk and that be not help by the statute of e cap for the word be true find  by office but here the office be true by this attainder Thomas Venables be  utter disable to do any act for by Bracton a person attaint shall forfeit  native land kingdom heir svan h one be attaint of felon and before office find  the king grant over his land also he be not help by the general pardon for  before the general pardon he have a special pardon so as the general pardon  non service but the justice say the forfeiture do remain until the general  pardon Harris contrary and he put the case of sir James Ormond h where the  king be entitle by matter of record and the subject confess the king title and  avoid it by matter of as high nature as that be for the king traverse in that  case lie and if the king be entitle by double matter of record if the party do  avoid one of the say record by another record be shall be admit to his  traverse and so here we have the pardon which be a record and that shall avoid  the record of the king see e in the earl of Northumberland case and here the  pardon have purge the forfeiture in respect of the offence and he say tenant  in tail be attaint of felony shall not lose his land but the profit only for  he have his estate by the will of the donor and there be a confidence repose  in he as in walsingham case he can grant his estate over and see wroths case a  annuity grant pro council impendend can be grant over or forfeit for there be  confidence and see Empsons case and dyer ass if the issue in tail be outlaw of  felony in the life of his father and get his charter of pardon in the life of  his father after the death of his father be may enter but by Thorp if the  issue in tail get his charter of pardon after the death of his father then the  king shall have the profit of the land during the life of the issue and the  case of Leonard cardinal pool be debate in the parliament Elizabeth that he be  dean of Exeter be seize of land in the right of his church and be attaint of  treason it be hold that he shall forfeit the profit of such land but admit  that by this attainder the land be forfeit yet the party have the freehold  until office find see Nicolss case in the commentary and see also the case of  the duchy in the first commentary and here the pardon have dispense with the  forfeiture tenant of the king alien in mortmain before office find the king  pardon it this be good the l rd Poynings convey all his land to sir Adrian  Poynings who be a alien and afterward be make a denizen and the king pardon he  and release unto he all his right in the say land without a that word of grant  and it be adjudge the same shall bind the king and be say that he have find a  good precedent h where a general pardon before seizure into the king hand be  allow contrary after seizure without word of grant see Br h charter of pardon  if a man be attaint of felony and the king pardon he all felony performance  the same the same shall not serve for life and land if no office be find but  it shall serve for the good without word of restitution and grant for the king  be entitle to they by outlawry without office but the king be not entitle to  the land until office be find see ibidem h the heir intrude and before office  find the king pardon now the heir be discharge as well of the issue and profit  as of the intrusion it self and also of livery but a pardon give after office  be available for the offence but not for the issue and profit and he cite the  case of coal in the first commentary where a pardon be grant mesne betwixt the  stroke and the death see h e Elizabeth dyer brereton case Elizabeth dyer  Egerton solicitor to the contrary this traverse be not good for he that  traverse have not make title to himself as he ought upon which the queen may  take issue for it be at the election of the queen to maintain her own title or  traverse the title of the party at the commonlaw no traverse lie but where the  livery may be sue Leonard er p but that be help by the statute of e cap but  where the king be entitle by double matter of record as in our case he be no  traverse be allow until e cap and in such case two thing be requisite that the  office be true find that the party who be to be admit to his traverse have  just title or interest of estate of freehold c but in our case the office be  confess by the traverse to be true although that the conveyance be not true  find also Harris at the time of the office find have not just title but a  interest come unto he long time after the office find also the traverse be not  good for he traverse the matter of the conveyance which be not traversable for  if the king have title non refert quomodo or by what conveyance he have it as  to the matter in law sure tenant in tail in remainder be attaint of felony if  the king during the life of tenant in tail shall have the freehold and he  conceive that he shall for it shall not be in abeyance and it can be in aDe  other for when he be attaint be be dead as unto the king the chief lord can  have it for tenant for life be alive and also he in the remainder in fee c the  donor shall not have it for the tenant in remainder be not natural dead but  civil and the land can revert before the tenant in tail be natural dead  without issue but if there be any other in who the freehold may vest and  remain then the king shall not have the freehold but only the profit so if the  tenant be attaint the lord shall have the land present e e the husband seize  in the right of his wife be attaint of felony the king shall have but the  profit for the freehold vest in the wife and if the lord enter Leonard the  wife shall have a issise and tenant in tail may forfeit for his life as be may  grant for his life see old n b if tenant in tail for life dower or by the  courtesy be attaint of felony the king shall have the land during their life  and after their deceases he in the reversion shall sue unto the king by  petition and shall have the land out of the king hand and there it be far say  that the lord by escheat can have it for the party attaint be not his very  tenant nor be in the reversion for the term yet endure but now it be to see if  the freehold be in the king without office and he conceive and argue that it  be where the king be entitle to a action there the king ought to have a office  and a to know facias upon it as where the king be entitle to a cessavit action  of waste c h where the entry in case of a common person be necessary there it  be requisite that there be a office for the king as if a villain of the king  purchase land or a alien bear c so for a condition break mortmain c and in  some case a office be only necessary to instruct the king how he shall char e  the officer for the profit which may be supply as well by survey as by office  as if the king be to take by descent or as the case be here and true it be  that a person attaint of felony may during his attainder purchase land and yet  he can hold it against the king g and it be clear that by the commonlaw in  such case the land be in the king but not to grant for the statute of h be a  impediment to it but now that defect be supply by the statute of h cap so that  now the king may grant without office see doughties case Elizabeth and in our  case a office be not necessary to entitle the king but for explain of bis  title and see h the land of a man attaint of high treason be in the king  without office so where the king tenant die without heir or tenant in tail of  the gift of the king die without issue see Br office before the escheator and  see h a man be attaint of treason the king before office grant his land and  good thing which lie in grant as advowson rend remainder such thing upon  attainder be in the king without office as to the general pardon of Elizabeth  he say that that do not extend to this case and that this interest of the  queen by this attainder do not pass by that pardon out of the queen so if the  queen have but a right or title only Popham attorneygeneral by this attainder  the estate of he in the remainder in tail accrue unto the queen for the life  of he in the remainder for by our law felony be punish by the death of the  offender and the loss of his good and land for the example of other therefore  nothing be leave in the party tenant for life be attaint of felony the king  pardon he his life yet he shall have his land during his life and he may  dispose of the same for his life and so be it of tenant in tail for he may  forfeit all that which he have and that be a estate for his life which Leonard  er p be a freehold if land be give to one and his heir for the term of the  life of another and the donee be attaint of felony the king shall have the  land during the life of beneficiary and vie for the heir can have it because  the blood be corrupt and there be not any occupancy in the case for e the  justice will not accept of a fine for the life of another because there may be  a occupant in the case but for a fine of land to one and his heir for the life  of another they will take a fine for there be no mischief of occupancy land be  give to a for life the remainder to b for life the remainder to the right heir  of a who be attaint of felony b die now the king have the fee execute and here  in our case if the tenant for life have be dead no praecipe have lie against  he in the remainder Leonard be in possession but the party who have right be  to sue unto the king by petition e if one seize of land in the right of his  wife for life be attaint the king shall have exitus beneficial but be conceive  that case not to be law for see f n b d the husband seize in the right of his  wife in fee be outlaw for felony the king seize the husband die now shall  issue forth a they to shut extremum the word of which writ in such case be  because a pron  interrog  terr tenement who ipse to hold de jure heir n wife  of oneself adbuc outliving occasion the same utlagar in Self pro a certain  felon unde indict to be c in man domini h father our men to stand out c  therefore the king have not the issue only but also the land see to the same  purpose the register b stamford placita coronae affirm that tenant in tail be  attaint of felony shall forfeit his land during his life and he say that the  estate of Thomas Venables be in the king without office not to grant for that  be restrain by the statute of h but it be in he before office so as he who  have right ought to sue to the king by petition if he will have his land yet  he conceive that before the statute of h the king may grant the land before  office as it appear by Thirning h who be before the say statute so if the king  tenant make a lease for year the remainder over to another in fee who die  without heir the remainder be in the king without office because a common  person in such case can enter but a claim be sufficient and therefore it shall  be in the king without office as to the pardon he say that it do not extend to  this estate for this be a freehold ergo not within the pardon as if the king  tenant be attaint of felony and the king pardon he all offence and all thing  which he may pardon these word shall not go nor extend to freehold but only  unto personal matter and such punishment and peins which do concern chattel  but it may be object that by this pardon title of quare hinder and reentries  for condition break be except and therefore if they have not be except they  have be remit by the pardon and therefore this pardon shall extend to  inheritance and freehold as to that I say that such exception be not in use in  the time of h and yet inheritance and freehold be not take to be within such  pardon and such exception do begin Elizabeth and he say he have be of council  in such case where it have be take that such pardon do not extend to freehold  as a abbot be seize and afterward during the seize the abbey be dissolve the  king make such pardon the same do not transfer the right of the king and in  that pardon be diverse exception of good and chattel in many case and  therefore it can be intend that the pardon do extend to freehold and see the  say Act of pardon the queen grant all good chattel debt fine issue profit  amercement forfeiture sum of money which word forfeiture shall be intend of a  personal forfeiture non aliter for it be couple with thing of such nature and  as to the traverse he say it do not lie in this case for the office be not  true but true in substance although void in circumstance and also the king  here be entitle by double matter of record sure the attainder and the office  and be say that the statute of and e which give traverse be be to be intend of  office find army duty and not army short catalog for then escheator be very  troublesome and the statute of e do not give traverse but where the office be  true find as if tenant of the king be seize and the seize be attaint the queen  seize the land now the disseizee have not remedy by traverse upon the statute  of e but be put to his to point out de law for the office be true but if I  Leonard be tenant of the king and seize of land accord and it be find that I S  be seize of my land and attaint c whereas in truth Leonard er p be have not  any thing in m land there traverse lie for the office be false and so in our  case for the traverse it be at the commonlaw and it be true that Venables be  seize coke to the contrary and he say that by the attainder the queen have  gain but a chattel and that notwithstanding this forfeiture if Venables have  be in possession a praecipe shall be bring against he and where it have be say  by Mr attorney that writ set down in the register be the best expositor of our  law the same be not so for the register say that waste lie notwithstanding a  mesn remainder which be not now law but it have be clear rule to the contrary  and see accord e the register therefore and the writ be subject to the  judgement of our law and the writ of they to shut extremum be not to the  contrary for I confess that in such case the land shall be seize into the hand  of the king but the king shall not have but a chattel therein it have be argue  it may be grant therefore it may be forfeit deny logical consequence for a man  seize in the right of his wife may grant but not forfeit guardian in socage  may grant but not forfeit the husband may grant a term for year which he have  in the right of his wife but he can forfeit it a woman inheretrix take a  husband who afterward be attaint of felony the king pardon he they have issue  the husband shall be tenant by the courtesy which prove that the king have not  the freehold by that attainder before the statute of Westminster tenant in  tail post offspring encourage may forfeit his land but now the statute have so  incorporate the estate tail to the tenant in tail that it can be divest even a  fine levy by he Self jure nullus although as to the possession it be a  discontinuance and that be the reason wherefore tenant in tail shall not be  seize to another use see Stamford the husband seize in the right of his wife  be attaint of felony the king shall have the profit of the land of the wife  during the life of the husband c so if tenant in tail be attaint of felony and  that be but a chattel in the land of the wife and also in the land of the  tenant in tail and if the possession of a bishop be seize into the queen hand  for a contempt in such case the queen have the possession and not the profit  only the same law of the land of tenant in tail or for life be attaint of  felony so of seizure for alienation without licence oh of the possession of  prior alien see brook Reseiser so where the seizure be for ideocy and he say  that in the principal case nothing be in the king until office and as to the  case of h he confess the same for at that time many and among they lawyer and  justice be attaint by parliament and so be sir John Salisbury who case it be  and their land by Act of parliament give express to the king and therefore I  grant that their land be in the king before office tenant in fee of a common  lord be attaint of felony his land remain in he during his life until the  entry of the lord and where the king be lord until office be find but in the  case of a common person after the death of the person attaint they be in the  lord before entry and in the case of the king before office for the mischief  of abeyances and see the Lord lovel case and Elizabeth blow where it be hold  that upon attainder of treason by Act of parliament the land be not in the  king without office in the life of the party attaint upon the word of the Act  shall forfeit see Stamford prerogat ace he say that this interest which come  unto the king by this attainder be but a chattel and then it be remit by the  pardon and so be conceive if it be a freehold for the word of the Leonard  general pardon be large and liberal pardon and release all manner of treason c  and all other thing cause c and here forfeiture be pardon and this word thing  be a transcendent c and although it be a general word yet by the direction of  the Act of general pardon it ought to be beneficial expound and extend as if  all thing have be special set down also the word be pardon they and their heir  therefore the pardon extend to inheritance for otherwise there be no use of  that and he conceive that by the first branch of this Act that the same extend  to inheritance and to acquit the land of all encumbrance for every offence not  except for there be the word heir and the three branch concern only chattel  and that be by the word grant where the first be by word of acquittal see h br  charter of pardon tenant of the king die seize the heir intrude office be find  by pardon of parliament all intrusion be Leonard er p pardon in that case the  offence be pardon but not the issue and profit of the land but by a pardon  before all be pardon but here in our case the office be not void for the  statute make all precept commission c void be award upon such forfeiture see  also in the second branch vex or inquiet in body good or land and see also  among the exception that person stand indict of wilful murder and forfeiture  of good land tenement grow by any offence by such person by which he say that  if such exception have not be the land of such person if he have be attaint  upon such indictment shall be forfeit as to the traverse he say that because  the office be true our plea be in the nature of to point out de law although  it conclude with a traverse we vary from the office in number of the person  and in the day of feoff and every circumstance in case of the king be to be  traverse and our plea in substance confess and avoid the offence although that  here the king be entitle by double matter of record sure the attainder and the  office yet one of the say record sure the attainder be discharge by another  record sure the pardon and then but one record remain sure the office and  therefore our traverse well lie and he say that by the commonlaw there be a  traverse as where it be find by office that the lessee of the king have commit  waste or have cessed for two year and that in such case the lessee and tenant  in a action bring against they may traverse the offence therefore there be a  traverse at the commonlaw where the king be entitle by single matter of record  so upon office find alienation without licence there be a traverse by the  commonlaw see traverse in such case in the case of William de Herlington ass  see Br traverse of office petition be by the commonlaw and traverse by the  statute frowick in his read see Stamf prerogat that traverse in case of good  be at the commonlaw but for land by office by e for before the remedy be by  petition see   part the sadler I S case traverse be at the commonlaw concern  freehold and inheritance but that be in special case sure when by the office  the land be not in the king hand nor the king by that be in possession but  only by the office be entitle to a action and can make a seizure without suit  for there in a to know facias bring by the king in the nature of such action  to which he be entitle the party may appear to the to know facias and traverse  the office by the commonlaw it be adjourn hughs r Len Len Len roll title grant  Len ac godb a Leonard mich Elizabeth in the king bench